The Importance Of Multicultural Communication With Amalia Martino
Founder and President of The Vida Agency, Amalia Martino joins the Communicate Like You Give A Damn podcast hosted by Kim Clark, sharing her unique experiences growing up as the only person of color in an all-white, blue-collar family in Seattle, navigating classism, and straddling different perspectives. This discussion touches on the challenges of convincing clients about the importance of multicultural communications and the agency's remarkable growth following the events of the summer of 2020, especially in the wake of George Floyd's murder. Not only does Amalia provide insights into her agency's approach to community engagement, emphasizing the need for equity and representation, but also reveals a new engagement model designed to ensure equity is woven into every project by incorporating an equity advisory board, networkers, and contributors. Join Amalia and Kim as they explore the complexities of communicating with diverse communities, navigating social and economic impacts, and the agency's commitment to building meaningful connections.
About The Guest:
Amalia Martino, Founder & President of The Vida Agency, leads the Seattle-based, award-winning firm specializing in impactful outreach to diverse audiences. Committed to disrupting the agency model, she prioritizes work-life balance and fosters a culture valuing team well-being and community inclusivity. With a unique blend of strategic vision and operational excellence, Amalia has successfully served clients across major market segments. Her expertise spans from strategic conceptualization to execution, with a distinctive ability to empathize with diverse cultural and economic needs. A sought-after public speaker, Amalia has inspired audiences in various sectors.
Find Amalia Here:
About Kim:
Kim Clark (she/her) focuses her work on the communicator and content creator's role in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). She is the co-author of The Conscious Communicator: The fine art of not saying stupid sh*t, an Amazon #1 bestseller and the leading voice for DEI communications and social justice messaging for brands.
She speaks at conferences, writes custom workshops, writes inclusive communications guides, and consults with companies on all things related to diversity, equity, and inclusion communications. Kim is a member of the LGBTQ+ community, a cisgender woman, Native American (Muscogee Nation) and a mom of two kids with disabilities. These marginalized identities and the privileges that come with society seeing her as White motivate her daily for social change.
Communicate Like You Give A Damn Podcast
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Transcript
Hi, everybody, welcome back to communicate like
Kim Clark:you give a damn. I'm your host, Kim Clark, and I am with a
Kim Clark:really special guests today who I met on a webinar where it was
Kim Clark:a whole bunch of entrepreneurs who are getting together, we're
Kim Clark:talking about how do we scale our businesses? How do we make
Kim Clark:sure that we're not burning out that we are bringing on skilled
Kim Clark:talent that wants to do this work and set them up for
Kim Clark:success? And, you know, she introduced what she does in her
Kim Clark:work. And I immediately reached out to her and said, Hey, can we
Kim Clark:connect? Hi, welcome to the show. I look forward to sharing,
Kim Clark:you know, with everybody, what you do and how you do it, why
Kim Clark:you do it. And we've got a lot to talk about. So please
Kim Clark:introduce yourself.
Amalia Martino:Yeah. So my name is Amalia Martino. I'm the
Amalia Martino:founder and president of the Vita agency, we are operate just
Amalia Martino:outside of Seattle, in Washington State.
Kim Clark:And I'm so interested in how you started the VT
Kim Clark:agency. Like how did you get there? What was your kind of
Kim Clark:path that guide to the point where you said, You know what, I
Kim Clark:need to start an agency and this is what we need to be doing?
Unknown:Those best laid plans, right, like you just i? Well,
Unknown:I'll tell you the story. Let's see. So I think I've always had
Unknown:communications. In my blood. I've always been a communicator,
Unknown:I've always been kind of the like to play the devil's
Unknown:advocate, I grew up the only person of color in a majority
Unknown:white, all white, blue collar family in Seattle. So we had
Unknown:classism stuff going on. And then I had a really unique
Unknown:experience compared to everyone else in my family, right? So
Unknown:lots of really honest conversations at the dinner
Unknown:table. My grandpa was very old school conservative, blue collar
Unknown:at really strong point of views. And you know, I can remember,
Unknown:yeah, I can remember being really young and like, those
Unknown:just didn't sit right with me, or I'd argue with him on
Unknown:something. Right. And Seattle has its own interesting
Unknown:relationship with race. And it's probably unlike any other place,
Unknown:especially if you're, you know, somewhere like New York or
Unknown:California, and then we just are different up here in the
Unknown:Northwest. So, you know, I grew up in a time of the integrated
Unknown:the schools by busing. So I, because I was a person of color.
Unknown:I, you know, bussed I don't even know, 30 minutes to another
Unknown:school, majority white school. So that meant I was really going
Unknown:to school with people who are classes above me, right, like,
Unknown:economic classes. And we have a lot of broad economics.
Unknown:Situations, I would say in Seattle, you know, so I'm going
Unknown:to school, at some point with like, you know, Bill Gates went
Unknown:to Lakeside High School, right? I went there for a summer day.
Unknown:So it's like, these very big divisions. And a lot of
Unknown:conversations always about from an interaction. And, you know, I
Unknown:don't think anybody I my family ever really said it to me
Unknown:directly. But I felt very much like my achievements and my
Unknown:accomplishments kind of had an asterix nest next to them,
Unknown:because I was had some special program or something was handed
Unknown:to me, right. So I've always had this in my blood of seeing
Unknown:things from other sides, but also being able to talk about
Unknown:it. And I think that's kind of where I can straddle. I was like
Unknown:this place where I can straddle and have these conversations on
Unknown:both sides and really understand, you know, these are
Unknown:the people I love and they're talking about them in a way that
Unknown:makes me uncomfortable because I am them but not in their eyes.
Unknown:It's it's a very interesting space to be in. So I have been
Unknown:in communications for my whole career. I worked, you know,
Unknown:started just after college and in California worked for Kaiser
Unknown:Permanente for their Institute for Health Policy and Politics,
Unknown:communications role. I did that for a while I had a daughter, I
Unknown:was a single mom, I decided to move back to Seattle because I
Unknown:do have a big family here. And I wanted to freelance because we
Unknown:moved to the suburbs of Seattle, and I wanted to be able to have
Unknown:that freedom that I didn't experience as a kid being able
Unknown:to walk my daughter to school down the street instead of her
Unknown:having to bus you know, to another neighborhood. So I
Unknown:freelanced for a long time. It was a moment I'm just I valued
Unknown:time over money, we had very little money. But we I had, I
Unknown:really valued my time I started an agency at one point with a
Unknown:partner that just fell on its face, it was one of those many
Unknown:failures that you have. And when my daughter became got her
Unknown:driver's permit, I was like, there is light at the end of the
Unknown:tunnel, I'm going to, like have so much time when she can drive
Unknown:herself to soccer practice, God knows where, you know, I'm just
Unknown:going to have so much time. So that was a moment where I said,
Unknown:Okay, we're going to try this for real, let's start something
Unknown:where I can start it, and I can own it. And we can just like
Unknown:throw our hat in the ring and see what we can do. And the
Unknown:first few years was trying to convince everybody on that
Unknown:client list or potential client list that multicultural
Unknown:communications was a good idea that listening and talking to
Unknown:other people, was a really good idea. And it was worth the
Unknown:investment. And, you know, running ROI numbers and running
Unknown:demographic numbers and running purchasing powers and all the
Unknown:reasons that are like antithesis to me of like why you should do
Unknown:this. But you had to make a business case for it. And then
Unknown:the summer 2020, George Floyd's murder, and everybody wanted
Unknown:what we were selling, but they had no idea really how to buy
Unknown:it. They had no idea how to operate in it. And our agency
Unknown:just went, you know, talking about scaling, like the growth
Unknown:was astronomical. From my perspective, we went from about
Unknown:eight employees to 20 some employees and about a year and a
Unknown:half, which is a lot.
Kim Clark:Yeah, that's pretty substantial. Yeah. Um, a couple
Kim Clark:of things you said straddling. And so here's a blog, headline
Kim Clark:or blog title for you straddling in Seattle. It just seems like
Kim Clark:your extended cater. Instead of Sleepless in Seattle straddle?
Kim Clark:Yeah, there you go. I spent some childhood time in Spokane. Yeah,
Kim Clark:come on. I was born in Portland, I do consider myself a Northwest
Kim Clark:girl. And I, I have an inkling of what you're referring to, you
Kim Clark:know, and especially with what's going on in Idaho, you know, the
Kim Clark:eastern part of Washington, the eastern part of Oregon, that
Kim Clark:whole, that whole scene right there is quite concerning. Yeah.
Kim Clark:Let's jump to what you just were referring to is the summer of
Kim Clark:2020. Seattle was very much in the news about its response to
Kim Clark:demonstrations, etc. So what was that experience for you? And
Kim Clark:what were you seeing that we that should be learnings for us
Kim Clark:on from an organizational and a government or city, you know,
Kim Clark:standpoint that we need to learn from, as we are recording right
Kim Clark:now in November of 2023, where the world has gone back out onto
Kim Clark:the streets.
Unknown:Yeah, you know, it's so interesting, because where the
Unknown:chopper Chas was on Capitol Hill, the autonomous zone during
Unknown:that was literally on like my childhood soccer field. Like
Unknown:that is where I mean, it was so visceral to me, like, I used to
Unknown:take the public bus there after school, you know, that was like
Unknown:my Hangout, right. But I have a lot of family and I have my
Unknown:husband's family is from Spokane there from pockets of
Unknown:Washington. And they're, you know, having conversations with
Unknown:them at the time about what was going on, like, what is going
Unknown:on? Like, it's just so scary. But then, you know, I have, I
Unknown:know people who are there like, drawing murals, and I know,
Unknown:media who are there covering it. And it was just such an extreme
Unknown:moment, like, whatever you wanted to see whatever point of
Unknown:view you wanted to consume, you could just consume just that
Unknown:right? On your phone or on your computer at home. And it really
Unknown:pushed me to like, we got to have, we got to have some really
Unknown:honest conversations here. I grew up in that, you know, no
Unknown:politics or religion at the dinner table. And I was like,
Unknown:this is not going to serve us well, moving forward. You know,
Unknown:the administration in Seattle really went one far away. And
Unknown:then especially when it comes to like, COVID relief, and you
Unknown:know, which, which to me, it's so interesting. Now, I'll talk
Unknown:to people and they'll just talk about COVID You know, 2020, just
Unknown:COVID And I'm like, there was this whole other thing
Unknown:happening, like, how did this all get wrapped up into just
Unknown:COVID? Did we forget that that happened? And the racial,
Unknown:social, economic impacts that Yes, why COVID response was some
Unknown:ways in some parts The country and not in other parts of the
Unknown:country. It's, it's really funny how you I mean, we're not that
Unknown:far out from it, but how your brain can just connect these two
Unknown:things together. And the narrative has spun so tightly
Unknown:that now there. It's like one thing almost didn't exist. The
Unknown:amnesia. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so frustrating, especially as a
Unknown:communicator, because you can see it happening, you can see
Unknown:the narrative start, right, and you can see people consuming,
Unknown:and then it just grows. And it's like, oh, boy, here we go, we're
Unknown:gonna have to have some tough combos. I don't know if I
Unknown:actually answered your question.
Kim Clark:Well, well, you made a really interesting point of I
Kim Clark:had the rule of no religion and politics at the dinner table,
Kim Clark:especially extended family, like for us thanksgiving, etc. And
Kim Clark:then I go, Well, no wonder we're so inept, and having
Kim Clark:conversations because we weren't given the opportunity to learn
Kim Clark:the skills and we so we get into the workplace, especially post
Kim Clark:summer of 2020, where people want to talk about it. But
Kim Clark:everyone, you know, you got some part of the employee population
Kim Clark:saying, I don't want to say the wrong thing. But I'm curious.
Kim Clark:And then the other side, you know, and then other portions of
Kim Clark:the employee population saying, we have to talk about this,
Kim Clark:yeah, you're gonna make mistakes, we have to talk about
Kim Clark:this. But in the workplace, especially in leadership
Kim Clark:situations, who did not get to be leaders, because they're
Kim Clark:awesome at di, we have no role models, or terrible role models.
Kim Clark:So that is something that your agency is trying to shift, you
Kim Clark:know, around that trajectory and increasing our skill sets to
Kim Clark:have these conversations in productive, constructive ways,
Kim Clark:and produce these role models and setting a safe space within
Kim Clark:culture, in order to be able to go through this time together.
Kim Clark:So talk to us about the agency and how you are, what your
Kim Clark:approach is, with your clients.
Unknown:Yeah, so we, you know, we consider yourself a full
Unknown:service, multicultural, communications and social impact
Unknown:marketing company, right. So we provide a full suite, from
Unknown:research to creative direction, creative development, to
Unknown:community engagement to media services, kind of a whole suite.
Unknown:And we like to combine all of those in order to deliver for
Unknown:our clients. So our superpower is really helping clients
Unknown:connect with communities that they have a hard time connecting
Unknown:with, or that there has been past harm done. And therefore
Unknown:there needs to be some repair. Before you can connect, right.
Unknown:So most of our clients are in the public sphere. So we're
Unknown:talking city, county, municipalities, right federal
Unknown:government stuff. So you know, I can make the case all day long,
Unknown:that if you are spending dollars, public dollars, on
Unknown:communications, on programs on specific things, that it needs
Unknown:to be done in a multicultural way, because you need to, for
Unknown:you know, because it's public dollars, and it needs to be
Unknown:spent equitably. And we need to put it back in the communities,
Unknown:especially the ones that have really been through the wringer.
Unknown:Right, historically, weigh historically and even more
Unknown:recently, and even things that we know aren't equal today. So
Unknown:we help do that. And sometimes it is facilitating
Unknown:conversations. Sometimes it's, you know, that's great, you're
Unknown:gonna put down in English, but really, this community doesn't
Unknown:all speak English right here or the other language needs. So
Unknown:let's talk about that. And we like to help clients think about
Unknown:that from the beginning. We don't like to think about
Unknown:multicultural as an add on, it's not an add on, it will never be
Unknown:successful as an add on. Because you're already making a value
Unknown:judgment there. Right? I always use this analogy of like, you
Unknown:know, you know, if someone's having a party, and everybody
Unknown:gets the fancy invites in the mail, and if you get the text
Unknown:message the night before, like, oh, hoping come to my party,
Unknown:you're one you're probably not going right, because you have
Unknown:something else to do. But also like, Why did everybody else get
Unknown:a fancy invite? And I got the text message do you already have
Unknown:in some kind of feelings? So you're not showing up? It just
Unknown:doesn't work? Right? So we have to be really intentional. And
Unknown:that goes back to like, what are your values as an eight as an
Unknown:agent, like a public agency, or what are our clients values? And
Unknown:how are we showing that we live up to them, not just on paper by
Unknown:checking a box but by actually doing the work that's going to
Unknown:move something forward? And sometimes we're The right people
Unknown:to help move the entire thing forward if it's a communications
Unknown:element, and sometimes, you know, we do it in partnerships
Unknown:with other, you know, maybe it's a technical engineering firm, if
Unknown:we're talking about displacing some kind of community or, you
Unknown:know, putting in some kind of benefit for the community, you
Unknown:know, it's voted as a benefit, do they see it as a benefit?
Unknown:Let's talk to them, let's, let's hear what would actually be
Unknown:beneficial to them. Yeah, and that takes, you know, that takes
Unknown:more time, and probably a little more money, because you're not
Unknown:just talking to, you're not just preaching the choir, you're not
Unknown:just talking the same people. So we've come from like this full
Unknown:circle of like having to convince people, it's the right
Unknown:thing to do to now okay, we all want to do it right now. But the
Unknown:community is only so big. So if you have the transportation
Unknown:company, the gas company, the light company, right, and the
Unknown:utility company all wanting to talk to the same committee at
Unknown:the same time, you're gonna get a lot of burnout. So that's
Unknown:another thing that we've learned to manage and plan for and help
Unknown:guide our clients through in the last few years.
Kim Clark:I appreciate the example of the text message with
Kim Clark:the party invite, because, you know, what is it over 80% of
Kim Clark:professional communicators in house look like me? And we'll
Kim Clark:look at that example and say, but I did invite them,
Unknown:right? Yeah. It's like, but
Kim Clark:but look at how you did and that they were an
Kim Clark:afterthought. They weren't either way getting.
Unknown:Yeah, exactly. And no matter which side of that text
Unknown:message you're on, you know how that feels. If you're the one
Unknown:sending it. You're like, oh, shit, I forgot to like camp.
Unknown:Right? And if you're the one receiving it, you're like, oh,
Unknown:they forgot me. I must not be that important. They don't
Unknown:really want me there anyway, right? Yeah, we all know how
Unknown:that feels.
Kim Clark:And then we justify it, but say, but I invited them
Kim Clark:they didn't. So that's where we have to do the self
Kim Clark:introspection of just like, redesigning what our
Kim Clark:communications look like, in order to get to that outcome.
Kim Clark:Before I move further into the conversation, I want to back up
Kim Clark:a little bit what what caused you to go more of the government
Kim Clark:route with this work versus all the tech companies and other
Kim Clark:kinds of health institutions? The industry that's in the
Kim Clark:Seattle area?
Unknown:You know, it's really I mean, I, I told you, I grew up
Unknown:here, but I don't really, I would not, at the time in 2017
Unknown:have an idea of even how to penetrate those companies or
Unknown:that market. Like, that is just seemed so far from me, it was,
Unknown:you know, the people that were working on Amazon were people I
Unknown:knew they weren't people from here, they're people coming in
Unknown:from other places, right? And Microsoft just seems so big. And
Unknown:I just, I just didn't know. But for government, I felt like,
Unknown:that was really easy for me to make a case of this is why you
Unknown:should. I also, you know, I remember taking a marketing
Unknown:class in college, and I didn't, I didn't major in marketing,
Unknown:because I was totally turned off by this class, which was like,
Unknown:you figure out who people are, where they are, what their pain
Unknown:points are, like, what sucks about their lives, and then you
Unknown:sell them a product based on, you know, whether it's whether
Unknown:it's true or not. And I was like, that's, I don't want to do
Unknown:that. Right. So I didn't know really how to bridge that in a
Unknown:in a private corporation. I guess. I could see the social
Unknown:good. And I could see the business case, I guess, for
Unknown:public sector. Yeah, it was a playbook of how to do it. Right.
Unknown:Like, I don't know, Microsoft bros at that time. Right. But,
Unknown:but I could look up, you know, procurements for public
Unknown:agencies. And it tells me how I could write a proposal and how
Unknown:they're going to score it. And, and, you know, I could, I could
Unknown:see it. And I could think about which partners or people I knew
Unknown:I wanted to bring along in the work with me. I
Kim Clark:had a similar experience in college with the
Kim Clark:marketing stuff. I was an advertising major at first, that
Kim Clark:was my first major. And then the exact same kind of lesson and I
Kim Clark:said, I can't do this. I don't want to do this. And so it was a
Kim Clark:very circuitous way that I ended up in communications because
Kim Clark:that was through first radio, and the documentary filmmaking
Kim Clark:and then in communications, and then it was like, but eventually
Kim Clark:I got to where I am. So you know, if I'm going to sell
Kim Clark:anything, it's selling people on each other and remembering who
Kim Clark:we are and what we're about and having our work matter and and
Kim Clark:To our work matter in the workplace, and there's so much
Kim Clark:to it. But you know, so if there's any product or service
Kim Clark:that I'm going to sell, it's not on something that you don't
Kim Clark:need. It's on something that you desperately need, and just may
Kim Clark:not know how to connect to it. And I want to be a part of
Kim Clark:creating that conduit and that that invitation. So you just
Kim Clark:recently launched something that sounds really cool that you,
Kim Clark:you're, you're very amped about, which is I am I'm so excited if
Kim Clark:you could describe it, but then talk about like, the thought
Kim Clark:process that got you here, like, what are you trying to solve for
Kim Clark:with this? Yeah.
Unknown:Yeah, so we recently launched shattering Forge, it's
Unknown:our community engagement model. I really want other people to
Unknown:copy us. I mean, that's really what I want to change. So, you
Unknown:know, we talked about already, the demand that communities
Unknown:faced, especially from public agencies, after the summer of
Unknown:2020, everybody wanted their time and their input, and they
Unknown:wanted to show that they were committed to equity and
Unknown:diversity, and, and they're gonna, you know, and they wanted
Unknown:all to do it right now, and they want us to teach them how to do
Unknown:it. And our community partners were saying, like, there's no
Unknown:way first of all, we're still in this moment, like, we don't have
Unknown:even the emotional, or brain with to talk about a bus stop.
Unknown:That might be in my community in five years, right? Like, I just
Unknown:don't, we're, we're in the right now. And we're in this crisis.
Unknown:And we, what, right, so, but then what we saw was, you know,
Unknown:politics change and taste change, you kind of see a little
Unknown:bit of like, what we want to do that our values are still there,
Unknown:but we're gonna, you know, maybe put a little bit of the budget
Unknown:back. So I started thinking about, how can I make equity,
Unknown:not an aside for engagement, but like a through line? And how can
Unknown:I build it programmatically? So that our clients don't have to
Unknown:think about it, they just know, that's what they're getting. And
Unknown:it's something that can sustain, it's not something that is just
Unknown:going to be on the whims of whatever is going on in places I
Unknown:can't control, right. So it's a model that has three legs to it.
Unknown:So we started an equity advisory board just for us. So we have
Unknown:five members of the community, they serve for a year, they're
Unknown:compensated for being on the board, they help keep us
Unknown:accountable, they help inform our leadership about, you know,
Unknown:maybe some standard operating procedures that are becoming
Unknown:more harmful to the community, right. We also decided that we
Unknown:were going to bring in what we call networkers on projects. So
Unknown:it's not just us TVA, walking into a community saying, We know
Unknown:everything, we're here to hear from you or talk to you. It's
Unknown:from a project to project basis, let's make sure we have some
Unknown:community networkers on the project, that are gonna help
Unknown:guide through the community, they know the community, what
Unknown:they might be, like leaders in the community, they might be a
Unknown:community based organization, but they're an extension of our
Unknown:project team. And it's another way that we can, you know,
Unknown:invest back into the community. So we're not asking them to do
Unknown:work for free, they're being compensated like they're part of
Unknown:our team. So that's a new way that we're approaching the work.
Unknown:So it's not just consultants walking into the room, it's
Unknown:consultants, plus, you know, community organizations that
Unknown:really know the community. And then the third piece is our
Unknown:contributors. So those are maybe one off people who want to have
Unknown:an opinion about things that are going on in their communities
Unknown:don't really have a lot of time, they like convenience. So we
Unknown:started a program where they can sign up. And we'll send out
Unknown:opportunities when they arise, and they will are paid per
Unknown:engagement. So it might be like, a survey or focus group, or you
Unknown:want to talk to us about something. So we're just
Unknown:building a roster, like those three pillars, and those three
Unknown:levels of engagement is a way that I can ensure that our work
Unknown:has equity, regardless of the project, and that the client can
Unknown:ensure and they we don't have to pee smell or say, you know,
Unknown:nickel and dime community members are nickel and dime
Unknown:equity. It's just built in.
Kim Clark:So good. That is so good. Congratulations.
Unknown:I really, really I'm so excited about it. Because, you
Unknown:know, we met What about scaling? So we're in Seattle, we're and
Unknown:we're, we work across Washington state. We have relationships
Unknown:here, but because we're so relationship driven and
Unknown:community centered, I was having a hard time thinking, how do we
Unknown:even take this anywhere else because I don't have those
Unknown:relationships, and I want to center community and all of our
Unknown:work right? You know, those networkers or those contributors
Unknown:help us cocreate messaging, co create strategy co create, you
Unknown:know, right, we don't want to work in a vacuum. So this is
Unknown:something that that can be scalable. And we have the same
Unknown:process that we know we can take it anywhere. Mm hmm.
Kim Clark:It's a very relational framework. I love it.
Kim Clark:It's got some Native American contingency there, you know,
Kim Clark:Unity base, yeah. Love it, love it. And it also reminds me of
Kim Clark:how you were talking, we're gonna make sure that everyone
Kim Clark:gets paid, like, if you're gonna be a part of this project, or
Kim Clark:whatever, you know, so equity is a tangible thing. And, you know,
Kim Clark:I was just while you were sharing that, I was realizing
Kim Clark:that most of the so when I talk to clients, who are people of
Kim Clark:color, they, they make sure to say, Hey, can I compensate for
Kim Clark:your time? Can I, you know, I want to make sure you get paid
Kim Clark:for this conference or, you know, some sort of reciprocity?
Kim Clark:Yes, when I am talking to people who look like me, that often
Kim Clark:does not come up. Now, there's this kind of expectation of, I
Kim Clark:get this stuff for free. And, and so, you know, I've noticed
Kim Clark:that, over the years doing this work, the differentiation of
Kim Clark:that, and so how I've been able to, you know, to, to move that
Kim Clark:forward, say that anybody that I'm working with is just like,
Kim Clark:you know, everybody gets something out of it. So there
Kim Clark:isn't this sense of entitlement of I have, you know, I'm
Kim Clark:entitled to get a free consultation from you, and then
Kim Clark:I can go off and do whatever I want with it. But this idea of
Kim Clark:compensating people consistently, like that being a
Kim Clark:principle of how you work, whether it's vendors,
Kim Clark:contractors, community relationships, as you talked
Kim Clark:about, as well as employees.
Unknown:Yeah, I think in the business world, like, you know,
Unknown:people understand the value of consultants, right, like, you
Unknown:would pay a consultant X amount of hours, because they're an
Unknown:expert in whatever it is. We really see our community
Unknown:partnerships as consultants to us into project so we pay them a
Unknown:consultant wage. It was, it would just went against
Unknown:everything in my being to be like, we, you know, client Z
Unknown:wants access to or needs to repair or needs to communicate
Unknown:with this community, that's been a challenge for us. We don't ask
Unknown:for that access for free, right? That means there's a lot of
Unknown:learning that needs to happen. And it's not gonna be me
Unknown:teaching you I mean, I don't, I don't know everything about
Unknown:every community, right? Like I know enough to walk in the room
Unknown:and say, I don't know enough, right? Like, and that's what we
Unknown:hope to bring our clients along. And so those community members,
Unknown:those networkers on our projects are really an extension of the
Unknown:consultant team.
Kim Clark:You know, you're talking about repair, and your
Kim Clark:primary clients are government. Now, you know, the way some laws
Kim Clark:and some states and and constituents, you know, areas
Kim Clark:are going there's a recreation or a continuation of harm,
Kim Clark:through government bodies, on the very communities that you're
Kim Clark:trying to, that some of your clients are like wanting to pull
Kim Clark:in. And they, they may or may not recognize the level of
Kim Clark:distrust, that trust that's been broken treaties that have been
Kim Clark:broken, promises that have been broken by government entities at
Kim Clark:the level that you and your consultant network, and
Kim Clark:community organization network does understand. And I think
Kim Clark:that really got highlighted during COVID, around vaccination
Kim Clark:access and education around that. So let's dive a little bit
Kim Clark:deeper into what multicultural communication is. And if you can
Kim Clark:give us kind of a definition and maybe an example of the
Kim Clark:difference between how you would approach communication from that
Kim Clark:standpoint of repair or, you know, not being performative.
Kim Clark:Just to get something out of a community.
Unknown:Right, yeah, I mean, we try our best being extracted
Unknown:community is like, against everything that we are, but you
Unknown:know, I don't know if I know that like the official
Unknown:definition of multicultural marketing, but to me it is. We
Unknown:are going to start from the beginning and we are going to
Unknown:define through our discovery work and our strategy work. Who
Unknown:are we trying to reach with whatever piece of communication
Unknown:and why. And then we are going to make sure that we have enough
Unknown:resources and time to build out thoughtful strategies for those
Unknown:communities right So, sometimes our projects are in, I don't
Unknown:know, eight languages, you know, or sometimes they're in 11
Unknown:languages. So it's not like a 8x, right? It's not like, here's
Unknown:how much you do an English and then we're going to times eight
Unknown:and you would do an eight. It's like, no, no. Right? Like, we
Unknown:have Spanish speakers on staff. And we have. So if we're doing
Unknown:something in English and Spanish, we have community
Unknown:members that we can work with, we really think about CO
Unknown:creating things with community. So we did a few years ago, we
Unknown:did a project for the city. Health and Human Services. So
Unknown:the the city had put a tax on sweetened beverage, in the city
Unknown:of Seattle, to curb consumption, right? It didn't curb
Unknown:consumption, shocking, it made the city a lot of money off of
Unknown:this tax. And most of the money was coming from black and brown
Unknown:communities and black and brown youth in particular. So it was a
Unknown:behavior change campaign, they wanted to know why, and how can
Unknown:we stop? You know, how can we encourage them to drink other
Unknown:things, and they had tasked us with coming to the interview
Unknown:with, you know, come and tell us what you would do? What's your
Unknown:strategy? And what's your campaign going to look like? And
Unknown:we we took a risk, but it was the right risk, which was like,
Unknown:We don't know. I know that I am Brown, but I don't speak for all
Unknown:black and brown youth. Right? Like, I don't know, until I ask
Unknown:them, what's going on? And what's contributing to these
Unknown:choices? And what would their preferred alternative be? And
Unknown:what are the barriers that they see in their community? Right,
Unknown:like, so I don't? My answer is I don't know. And luckily, they
Unknown:trusted us to do the work. We won that project. And we went
Unknown:out and we the first thing we did was had for community
Unknown:partners that already worked with black and brown youth to be
Unknown:our partners in the work so that we could spend the first few
Unknown:months just talking to them listening to them, we had a huge
Unknown:focus group with about 50. This is before right before COVID
Unknown:about 50 youth, right? And we went through like, what do you
Unknown:drink? Why do you drink it. And we even have like an educational
Unknown:piece about sugar and like how it used to be a commodity that
Unknown:was built on, you know, you know, we like to bring in the
Unknown:educational piece, we like to bring in the partners who
Unknown:already know the communities and the communities trust. And then
Unknown:we like to show up being the dumbest people in the room,
Unknown:honestly, like that is if you're gonna do multicultural
Unknown:communications, you know, nothing, always, you know,
Unknown:nothing, right. So that's what we did. And then we had these
Unknown:youth shine sign up. Some of them signed up to co create the
Unknown:campaigns with us. So we did a survey, we call it the suite
Unknown:survey, we got some data points, we realized that we asked them,
Unknown:what would your preferred alternative be? And they said
Unknown:water. And if you had asked me months before to design a
Unknown:campaign, it would not have been a water focused campaign. I had
Unknown:no idea. Right? Okay. Why don't you drink water? Well, it's more
Unknown:expensive at the store than soda. The bottle of water is
Unknown:more expensive than the can of soda. I don't have we don't have
Unknown:water fountains. Some of our schools that they went to didn't
Unknown:have clean drinking water didn't have. I just ever, you know, so
Unknown:the campaign morphed into a water focused campaign. It
Unknown:wasn't. And then it was like, Well, what should the message
Unknown:be? Well, the message shouldn't be. Sugar makes you fat. So
Unknown:don't drink it. Like don't fat shame me. Don't do any of that
Unknown:shaming stuff like, but if you're gonna have me do water,
Unknown:like don't show why. Why are all the water commercials like in a
Unknown:spring in the mountains like I live in? So make it like, okay,
Unknown:so I did this class
Kim Clark:commercials were falling through dandelion.
Kim Clark:That's not what it's like, folks.
Unknown:So it was like, and I, I want a water bottle, so I can
Unknown:fill it up. But I also want water stations in my school. So,
Unknown:you know, ended up with us working with other departments
Unknown:in the city of Seattle to get water fountains installed in the
Unknown:schools there. We did stick. We did stickers and water bottles,
Unknown:and we did a whole joke. Cool. Oh, my gosh. Yes. And like 10
Unknown:youth think? I mean, this was during COVID. At this point, you
Unknown:know, they're already taking online schools. They, they
Unknown:signed up to, like, help us, you know, they had drawings. They
Unknown:drew some of the stickers that we used, and they they really
Unknown:helped us think through the campaign and told us where we
Unknown:should put it and you know, it was really great. It was a
Unknown:really great co created campaign and that I would love for every
Unknown:single project to be. Oh, that's
Kim Clark:so cool. Because that also ties into the equity around
Kim Clark:access, the access to water, access to drinkable water. And
Kim Clark:then having that individuality that creativity, like my
Kim Clark:daughter is so into water bottle stickers, right? Like I asked
Kim Clark:her like, Okay, put together, you know, we celebrate
Kim Clark:Christmas. So like, what's your what's your Christmas list? And
Kim Clark:she's still puts on this is like, years running now. Water
Kim Clark:Bottle stickers. And I'm like, Well, I have to get you a new
Kim Clark:water bottle because it's yours, you know. But yeah, Todd's on
Kim Clark:skateboards. Yeah.
Unknown:Oh, my gosh, that's funny. Yeah, no, it was great.
Unknown:And I think that's where, you know, we're communications. But
Unknown:really, we were here to, to use our projects to do good in
Unknown:community, right. And so, you know, if bringing on that CBO
Unknown:really helps them meet some kind of fundraising goal. And they're
Unknown:involved in this project in the community, we're learning from
Unknown:them, just as they're learning from us, right? You know, if
Unknown:you're a CBO, working with the city, doing grants and all that
Unknown:stuff, like, we'll take that administrative burden off them
Unknown:will, will do the administrative piece, so they can just focus on
Unknown:doing the work, if that's what they want to do. And, you know,
Unknown:we're not if we hear there's a need in the community, we're not
Unknown:just into a pretty campaign, it's like, what's the deal with
Unknown:the water stations? It you know, it was I mean, you know, it was
Unknown:historically the oldest house, it was the only high school in
Unknown:the Seattle school district that hadn't been redone. It was the
Unknown:only like, historically black high school, they're actually
Unknown:now rebuilding it, but it took a fight to have it read, they had
Unknown:no drinking water, or hot water to wash your hands. It's just
Unknown:crazy. And
Kim Clark:that that is another example of the divide, you're
Kim Clark:talking about the gap, the economic gap that you see with
Kim Clark:that area. Oh, man. And then the other point that you made of,
Kim Clark:you know, going in and saying we don't know, why is like, I think
Kim Clark:that is really core for us as communicators to hear because,
Kim Clark:you know, part of my my life and my day is spent as an academic
Kim Clark:teaching at a university. And anything that we put together is
Kim Clark:research based, starting with the hypothesis, which is a huge
Kim Clark:euphemism for, bring in your bias and confirm your bias, as
Kim Clark:much as you can, you know, or you know, how to try to mitigate
Kim Clark:your bias based on the hypothesis that you're bringing
Kim Clark:into it, if you don't go in with that kind of sense. That can
Kim Clark:help you as a communicator, with what I teach my clients called
Kim Clark:majority coding. So C O D I N G coding, not coding, like you
Kim Clark:wear a coat. So majority coding is that idea of coming at it
Kim Clark:from a dominant lens. And expecting or assuming or not
Kim Clark:even having it on your radar that everyone agrees with yours,
Kim Clark:having the same experience, and multicultural communication
Kim Clark:coming from the network that you've set up, and the strategy
Kim Clark:and the approaches that you put in place with your clients. Just
Kim Clark:dismantles all of that. And it allows that voice and experience
Kim Clark:to actually come forward where there's genuine, meaningful
Kim Clark:change to the point of bringing water stations with drinkable
Kim Clark:water. So you've provided the access because communications
Kim Clark:lead to that visibility, and that visibility has led to
Kim Clark:accountability. And now look at all of the people, all of the
Kim Clark:youth that are benefiting from that effort. Amazing work,
Kim Clark:amazing work.
Unknown:Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, that is
Unknown:that is the superpower. And in any communication, but
Unknown:especially in multicultural communication, you have to show
Unknown:up just, you know, you got to leave it all at the door, show
Unknown:up and ask the questions and listen. And I think that's been
Unknown:sometimes a challenge, especially, you know, working
Unknown:with communicators in house, communicators, that might be our
Unknown:clients, right? They want to do this work, sometimes they're
Unknown:scared to do the work, they don't want to mess it up, right,
Unknown:which I totally get. Or sometimes, you know, there's a
Unknown:they need to show and prove that it was effective or they need.
Unknown:So it's really like we're also working like, okay, what are the
Unknown:KPIs? What are we what are we going to achieve? And let's be
Unknown:really clear that like, sometimes those KPIs that you're
Unknown:looking for, for traditional, you're not going to have, that's
Unknown:not going to be that's not going to apply here. Right. So, what
Unknown:are the other KPIs that we can we can look at? We're always
Unknown:also, you know, talking about sustainability, tracking those,
Unknown:like, qualitative quantitative like the mix of it. It can't
Unknown:just be all data driven because we're talking human beings
Unknown:right. So All right, we're not all data points. So let's make
Unknown:sure we're mixing this up a little bit to how we're talking
Unknown:about and reporting on the work that we're doing. Love it.
Kim Clark:Love it. Love it. So to you, what does it mean to all
Kim Clark:this said and all the work that you've done? And moving forward?
Kim Clark:What does it look like to communicate? Like we give a
Kim Clark:damn.
Unknown:I think it's intentionality. I mean, I think
Unknown:it's not having a dinner table that excludes religion and
Unknown:politics, right? I think it's like, anything's open, let's
Unknown:talk about it, you have to be open to the conversation. And
Unknown:then you also, you know, there's moments where we wish we had
Unknown:picked different words to use, but to know that we're all
Unknown:humans with emotions. And, you know, let's just the more
Unknown:conversations we have, the less hidden I think it can be. So
Unknown:communicate like you give a damn like, just open up the
Unknown:communication channels and have the tough conversations.
Unknown:Otherwise, they're happening other anyway, they're just
Unknown:happening behind closed doors or behind screens, and it's not as
Unknown:productive,
Kim Clark:where they come out sideways. And because we're not
Kim Clark:having the healthy, constructive conversations, but yet, there's
Kim Clark:this human desire to connect. But we don't have the tools
Kim Clark:because we haven't had the practice. We haven't allowed
Kim Clark:ourselves to be imperfect. As we learn how to communicate about
Kim Clark:these.
Unknown:Yes, it's like any other muscle, right? Yeah, yeah.
Kim Clark:Yeah. How can people follow you learn more? Get into
Kim Clark:understanding more about shatter and forge and all the work that
Kim Clark:you're doing? Follow your case studies, etc? Yeah,
Unknown:so our websites a great resource. It's the Vida
Unknown:agency.com V Ida, like life in Spanish. I'm also on LinkedIn,
Unknown:Amalia Martino on LinkedIn. Just all the usual places online.
Unknown:Yeah, look us up, follow subscribe, all the shattering
Unknown:forge stuff is on our website, too.
Kim Clark:Ah, y'all have to follow her and follow their
Kim Clark:work. They are truly a model that we can benefit in their
Kim Clark:experience. They can help us prevent some mistakes they are
Kim Clark:taking, you are taking the lead Amalia on on how to do
Kim Clark:multicultural communication in a very effective and meaningful
Kim Clark:way. And with the ability to scale in a very short amount of
Kim Clark:time and sustain, though.
Unknown:Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, thank you know, I'm a
Unknown:lifelong learner. I walk into many rooms saying I don't know
Unknown:anything like so. I would love to hear from people. I would
Unknown:love to your feedback or whatever. Connect with me.
Kim Clark:Wonderful. Thank you for being a part of communicate
Kim Clark:like you give a damn really appreciate that. You were here.
Kim Clark:Thank you.
Unknown:Thank you, Kim.
