Shaping The Narrative: Going Beyond The Headlines With Tiara M. Tucker

Kim Clark: 00:00:00

Hi. All right, thank you for coming back. Thank you for attending this really special episode, where we're gonna get into it. We're gonna get into some some deeper conversations on messaging narrative. How do we talk and educate? What is social justice situation and crisis occurs? Now we've been talking about it from the lens as in house or freelance communication consultants, what do we do within our organizations? What this episode is going to provide us is it's going to, through our incredible guests who well I'll open it up to introduce yourself in just a second here, we get the lens of somebody who's working directly within the actual crisis situations as a PR person. Yes, there we go. So let's get this started. Tiara, please introduce yourself. And thank you for being here. Yes, thank

Tiara Tucker: 00:00:59

you. Thank you so much for having me. And hello to everybody out there listening. My name is Tiara M. Tucker. And I am the founder and CEO of T arrow public relations network, which is a boutique firm based in Dallas, Texas, where I focus on PR and brand strategy, communications support special events, and social and community impact. So I've been in the PR communications industry for decades, including working in corporate America. So I'm really excited to be here with you and to just have a great conversation about a very, very important topic.

Kim Clark: 00:01:35

Thank you. Thank you, we had the pleasure of crossing paths at prsa icon in October of 2023. And I'm so grateful to you that you came up, I was running a session and you came up and introduced yourself and told me a little bit about the work that you've been doing. And I went whoa, wait, wait, hold on. You need to be on the podcast. And I'm so I'm really grateful for your your availability to have this conversation with our folks. So before we get into, you know, some of the work again, tell me a little bit about your background as far as like, what is your path been? Then like in order to get you to where you opened up your own boutique PR firm in Texas? Yeah,

Tiara Tucker: 00:02:22

so I like to tell people that I have been in probably the PR communications industry since I was a little girl before I even knew it existed. You know, I was always pay for it. Like Barbie dolls, I probably was the Barbies PR agent and didn't know it, right. But I just I always had a passion for communicating. I always had a passion for advocacy, even as, like I said, a little girl. So over the years, I ended up going to college, Illinois State University, where I received my Bachelor's Degree in Public Relations, I received a minor in business. And then I went on to receive a master's in communication. And even during that time, I was very active on campus. And you know, in college, and you know, throughout my high school and elementary years. And so I found myself just being the one chosen to maybe host an event or MC an event or I was always writing about something. And so then I became even more passionate about, like I said, advocacy, right? Just what is right what is wrong and not being afraid to use my voice. And so I started my corporate career back in 2004. And I was working for a fortune 50 company, absolutely amazing company. And I started off working in one department, but I made it very clear to my leaders, I want to work in the communications area in the public affairs area. So when the opportunities presented themselves, I was the one that they looked at. And so I started working now in corporate public affairs and on the internal side, and then just learning a little bit about external and internal but primarily in on the internal side of things. But while there, I was also still doing things on the side, and then I eventually decided to give my company a name. All right. So I caught a tear on PR network. So I was able to do things with my company. And then things just started just growing and evolving. And so here we are today. I took a step of faith, and I left corporate America. So I am a full time entrepreneur with my communications and PR firm and I'm blessed for the opportunities that I've received. Every one is a learning opportunity. And just another way to to make an impact.

Kim Clark: 00:04:48

Okay, so your PR firm do you specialize in advocacy, social justice situations with different clients or do You have a broad but a specialty? How would you describe it?

Tiara Tucker: 00:05:04

Yeah, so that's an excellent question, you know, and I used to stress myself out over what's my specialty? What do I want to be known for? And I said, You know what? I'm taking the stress off, right? Who's coming to me? And what am I known for? What do I love? And I just took an assessment once and I said, Okay, I find that the common denominator and all that I'm doing, it's impact, community impact, social impact. So I've worked with some of the leading civil rights attorneys on major police brutality cases, I've had people reach out to me regarding various social justice situations, I've also had community leaders reach out to me, and I've helped with political campaigns, I've helped with entrepreneurs who are, say, launching that new book that's going to bring positivity, so really the common denominator, business professionals, community leaders, advocates and activists who really just want to make the world a brighter place. So I can define it with the person I can't define with the name. It could be a nonprofit, it can be a small business owner, I just defined by the impact, and and what we're about to do together to make the difference. So that might change down the line. But right now, it's a real happy space to be here.

Kim Clark: 00:06:26

Excellent. Excellent. And thank you, thank you for stepping out and, and serving in this way. We're gonna get into the police brutality work and some of the more challenging situations that you've been a part of, and trying to message and provide narrative and explanation and context and educate with the clients that you've worked with, in crisis situations where it's literally a matter of life and death. And before we get into that, I would like to hear, do you have some examples, or at least one example of kind of a fun, creative, bizarre campaign that you've worked on as well?

Tiara Tucker: 00:07:08

Yeah, so wow, you know, the one that comes to mind, this was years ago, right. I was living in Illinois at the time, I'm from Kankakee, Illinois. So shout out to my hometown and home state, even though I'm living in Dallas now. So when I was living in Bloomington, I know everybody knows her. She's my auntie, in my mind. But Oprah right. So Auntie Oprah was about to launch her network, the Oprah Winfrey Network, right. So everybody was excited, Oprah is gonna have her own network. And so they created a campaign, which I think was very clever. So they opened it up for people who want to have their own talk show on the Oprah Winfrey Network. So a friend of mine brought it to my attention. I said, Oh, my God, I would love to have a show. So I came up with this show idea. I connected with one of my co workers, who is a producer. And so we created this, this interview, and this campaign. And it really was so much fun, because the local radio station had me on the air because they wanted to talk about me possibly having my show, my hometown newspaper, wrote a front page cover article about me wanting to have my own Oprah Show. So it was based on vote. So we created this actually pretty impressive. video teaser. People were voting. I mean, I had like, 1000s upon 1000s of votes. Needless to say, I did not win. So I do not have my show with Oprah. But I'm, I'm on your show, which is just as good, right. But that was really fun. Because it just, you know, we pulled together a campaign. It was on social. It was text, it was phone calls, radio was involved newspaper. So it was fun. So little lightweight, but I've had a lot more serious ones that I've worked on to over the years.

Kim Clark: 00:09:03

Yeah, yeah. And I'll be interested to know how you care for yourself as you do this work. But I'm glad and you really are demonstrating the challenge of of most of us as communicators, whether we actually name it or not, is that there's this side of our work that is so fun and can be really creative if we allow ourselves to kind of get into that space of creativity and, and putting ourselves out there. And then there's then there's the more challenging the challenging issues that really, really can make a difference on how somebody feels safe or not. Or understanding what what's happening. And and also to kind of mitigate polarization that can happen within company situations. There's, there's there's also there's real beauty that you put yourself as the person who was being publicized. So now you have that kind of first person experience by being the person who is talked about, that's being hyped. So you know, the experience of your clients because you've put yourself in that role. And then you've also been in house in organization. So you understand internal politics within organizations, you know, struggled to build empires or to get credit and all the good and the ugly of of being within as a communicator, and how it's all of those skill sets you're bringing to this to your firm and to your clients. So let's let's talk about some of the kind of social justice the police brutality cases that you've been a part of how, how did you come upon them? And what is your approach when you start to work with a client to try to understand what happened? Yes,

Tiara Tucker: 00:10:59

yes. So the very first police brutality case that I that I worked on, many years ago, and at the time, actually, it was hosting an event. So I was hosting an event on behalf of my PR firm and my nonprofit, I was having nonprofit. And so I brought in a guest speaker, who is one of the leading civil rights attorneys. So at the time, he was known, but he wasn't as known as he is to this day. So I brought him in as a guest speaker, and we were just talking about some of his cases. And it was a very interactive, amazing event. Shortly after the event, the next day, he reached out and said, Hey, would you be interested in handling PR work for me? And at the time, I was like, I don't know, you know, I? I don't know. I'll think about it right? And so long and behold, I thought about it, he reached out again. And it was really just the timing at that moment. I said, You know what, let's do it. So what he and I did not know is that on that Tuesday? I said, Yes, let's do it. So he gave me my first assignment I'll never forget, he's like, I need you to send out a press release. And I need you to email and he started naming like people like Al Sharpton and Anwar, I don't have their emails, trucks. And he said, It's okay. I have them. So that is the, you know, the stress and the nervousness. So that was a case that I worked on. This was again, Tuesday, Thursday, there was a murder that took place in Dallas, very high profile murder. I typically don't give names. But, um, and then I asked him, I said, Do you think that, you know, you'll get this case? He was like, Well, I don't know, right? There's a lot of different attorneys that might get it. I don't know. Lo and behold, the family did retain his law office. So I became the PR director. So that next morning, I sent out a press release. And my press release indicated that this law firm was retained. And I was the PR director, when I tell you, my entire life is like flipped in a moment. Because every local national network in America, and even some outside of America, they were calling they were texting, they were emailing. So I was now in the fire. And, you know, it's one thing to work on situations where you know, you don't know if it media will bite it. All right. But in this situation, I mean, they were all coming. And it was very overwhelming. But I was in a space, where I felt like, oh, yeah, this is the space that I need to be in. Because I was able to navigate all of these producers, all of these networks, create and host press conferences. So it was a very emotional time, because we're still dealing with a murder, we're still dealing with a situation where there are a lot of questions where there are a lot of angry people, because obviously police is involved. But at the same time, we have a family. We have community members, there were so many people impacted, but to just have that opportunity to be behind the scenes, but also in the forefront at the same time was very invigorating. And I learned so much from that very first major situation that I've been able to just bring to so many other situations over the years. So that's how I kind of got my foot into that part of it. And then from there, obviously, there were more police brutality cases, and I would work with those attorneys on those cases. And then I would have other attorneys who would reach out to me, so it's just been a variety of cases. And I feel like my role is to work closely with the attorneys because they are the legal team. But my role is to work with them to to shape the narrative have, because one thing about cases like that, oftentimes, you'll find that the first narrative that goes out is that that comes from the police authorities, right? So they're the ones who are often putting out the release or putting out information, they may not put it all out, they may put a crumb a piece. But it's our role to make sure that we're shaping the narrative, the way that the public needs to understand it, and needs to see it. And it's really important that happens sooner than later. Because oftentimes, people might follow a case or situation and they might not. But it's all about how do we get the truth out? Knowing that it's still most of the time they're developing stories?

Kim Clark: 00:15:52

And how do you manage that? Because organizations deal with that as well, something happens initially, but we don't have all the answers of exactly what happened. So what have you learned through these situations on how to handle something where you need to say something immediately to kind of set the tone, and try to get what is known as facts out there, but then keeping up that momentum that you're the source to come back to? And to build that credibility? Because I think it's something that organizations can learn as well. It's just how paste these things out when you don't have all the answers? Absolutely.

Tiara Tucker: 00:16:26

So whenever I'm working on a situation, the very first press release that I send out, is one acknowledging who the point of contacts are. And that alone can just, it can do wonders, right? Because in crisis situations, people are reaching out to whoever they can, they'll do a Google search, they will find whoever they can, that represents the company, the situation, I mean, I can't tell you how many times they'll reach out to the family that's still dealing with this situation or this loss. So my number one priority is, let's get something out to the media. Unless let them know, one, if there's a legal team involved, this is who is now going to retain. And then also, as far as me, all media inquiries will come my direction. So now we're already adding a little organization. So now from there, they have my phone number, they have my email, they're able to follow us. And then they're oftentimes I'll get an email or a text saying, hey, please add me to your distribution list. So those are the things that can happen, when you at least let it be known. These are your points of contact. And then from there, you know, depending on your distribution list, you know, maybe you, you're sending it to the broad email address, oftentimes, you're gonna get an email saying, this is the person or this is the journalist that's assigned to this and or they'll reach out and say, Hey, keep me posted, you know, I'm following the story. And then another thing, you know, that that I would do on my farm, we'll go out there, and we'll see who's already covering this, right, Google Google search, who are the journalists, and the and the outlets that are already covering it. So we need to get this journalist information, because we're now adding them to our distribution list, because we can already tell that, that they're, they're attempting to cover the story. So let's bring them on. So that's what I call building my network of the media outlets that I know already have some interest. So even then, that's a good level set. Um, if there is a statement that can be made early on, include the statement, it could be very simple, right? It doesn't have to give a lot of detail, it can be as simple as we're still looking into all of the facts. We look, we look forward to sharing more information. But again, it's bringing everybody back to you or to that the people that are going to be the representatives. And then also on the other side, it'll bring let's say, the police or the authorities, now they're watching as well. So that's just one example. And then from there, I would say, it's not a matter of quantity. It's not about just throwing out a release, throwing out a release throwing out a release. It's actually having something to say. And it also takes strategy and and deciding what's the best approach. There have been situations where we felt the best approach was okay, let's have a press release. That, that lets people know we're going to have a press conference. So now we have a press conference, and we're bringing everybody in together. But there have been some situations that I worked on where we say, You know what, let's make this an exclusive. We're gonna just do an exclusive interview or situation and I know not everybody's in favor of that, but but there At times, but that might be the most appropriate situation at that time. So it just really depends. But it definitely requires a lot of communication. And really thinking strategically on how you can get the greatest impact and the greatest reach.

Kim Clark: 00:20:18

Now, when you're working with these grieving families, and these fired up lawyers, and you know, that locally, statewide, maybe even nationally, and as you mentioned, even internationally, people are kind of hanging on information. And in you are as close to the source of the victims side of the story, as you know, more so than anybody else. You have direct access to the family, perhaps even friends who are, you know, in the same area when it happened, etc, or impacted themselves? So what are the key things that you're looking for? When you are talking to these different parties? And listening? What are you listening for, that helps you organize into what the eventual narrative is going to be in order to receive the whatever the objective is justice, you know, whatever justice looks like in the in that in those key situations, what are you looking for, that's going to create that that story, that narrative that you want the public as well as the pulleys and whoever else is involved? To know, understand and do something with? Yes.

Tiara Tucker: 00:21:36

So for me, I want to know the person. So questions that I want to ask, um, well, what did he or she do? Write? What was their profession? What did they love? What was the what was his or her passion? Because what we're doing, we're going to humanize the person, we want to humanize the person, because depending on the situation, and again, I've worked on police brutality cases, I've worked on cases where police was not involved in it, but it still was a victim involved. I've even had the opportunity. And I'll talk about this a little later, where there was a high high profile celebrity who actually was a part of a murderer. So he was now on the other side, and there was a victim. So so I'm just saying that to say, East experience allows me to see things from a different perspective. But at the end of the day, who is this person? Because in most of my experiences, most not all, were involved. Police brutality, or a police involved situation. The narrative feels negative, you know, or it feels like there's some holes or some blanks. So people might see a young man who I'm just gonna give an example a young man in a hoodie, and we think negative, or a young man, or what is he doing there? He shouldn't have been there. That's not always the case. Right? This person could have been a father, this person, it could be a professional. I mean, so So sometimes, what we see is not always the reality. So let's let the world know who this person is. Do we have pictures? If we have pictures, let's let's provide a picture of this person with perhaps family members, if they are okay with that, and they're not always okay with that at times. So let me ask that. It's always about what are they comfortable with? If we want to share that they love say art or they love to sing or whatever it is, let's share that story and let's start humanizing the person. And then I think it helps the narrative take on a new life because now I can relate. Now, this could be my brother, my sister, my child, my grandchild, my coworker. So it's not about what we think it's about Wow. There's a level of empathy that is involved where we know the person and we can share their story.

Kim Clark: 00:24:20

Okay, so once we have that established, we know who this person is. They're a real human being they're not a statistic. And and I also hear what you just shared, that you're looking for language that's going to remove these excuses or remove this invitation to victim blame, that you're looking for ways of like okay, here's, here's, you know, what this person was about, but to try to mitigate potential like, well, what were you doing there in the first place? Or if you were dressed that way you're asking for it. You know, these these is very phobic, sexist, all the things racist have points of view that can cloud and miss the situation that is actually right here for us to take a look at. So in any of the situations that you've been in what Have there been opportunities where you have added to the narrative, like more of a cultural context or a social context to educate people about how this isn't just a one off situation? Has that been a part of your work? And if so, how have you approached that in your messaging and narrative?

Tiara Tucker: 00:25:43

Yes, yes. Well, especially with some of the attorneys that I've worked with, I mean, they have a long history of multiple cases or multiple situations. And so that's always an opportunity to perhaps reference a previous situation, or to even mention maybe some of the efforts that those attorneys are that I've worked on in the past. And then what we find is that as an example, and I say this with all due respect, when George Floyd's situation, you know, came out and was revealed, there were many people who, for the first time, we're now paying attention, but those that have been a part of this journey, and being familiar with more and more stories, George Floyd's story was similar to others, maybe not the exact same circumstances, but there was so many more lives that were impacted. So so that's an opportunity where it's not that people are trying to steal the spotlight. But instances like that bring out pain that other families have experienced. So there are some families that I've that I've worked for, and I've advocated for. And when another person is a victim, or is is murdered or injured, it now brings their pain out again. So now they're maybe sharing their story even more. So it's more of a ripple effect that people may not even understand. But it impacts so many people in so many ways. So I think that's just as one thing to keep in mind that one story probably equates to years and decades of other stories.

Kim Clark: 00:27:44

And one of the things that I struggle with, that you're bringing to mind right now is what is the hierarchy? of why we here have some and never have others? Do you have any insight to that of like, why there isn't more of an equality around media coverage? When it relates to you know, these situations? Yeah,

Tiara Tucker: 00:28:12

that's a very good question. That is an excellent question. And I've seen it firsthand. Um, I will say this for every one story that you may see that hits mainstream, there are several, several more, probably even that happened the same day, to be honest with you. And I didn't understand that until I was actually, you know, heavily involved during one period of time. I think there's multiple factors. I think that for one, it could be on the local level, right? Is this is this a story that the local media is going to bring to the forefront? Right? Is this a story where there's national representation and what I mean by that, um, you know, there are some attorneys and I've worked with them, attorney, Van crop Attorney Lee Merritt, attorney, Dr. Washington and so many more. And I have so much you know, love and respect for their work, because they work hard. If they, you know, maybe are are missing or they're part of a case. Most of the time it is going to raise eyebrows, people are going to pay attention to it, but it's because they've done so much work, and that people are following them. And so those are just some examples, but even some of their cases may not make it to that national platform. So my personal opinion is that there is no magic secret sauce. I think some of it is just it's it can be timing. It can be the level of the level of interest. Maybe it's something that went viral. Maybe it's something everybody's talking about. Because everybody's involved in the story. So now obviously the media is interested. Maybe it could be, you know, because of who's involved in it. So there's so many factors. And I'll tell you, there have been times where I've pushed out press releases, for cases, that would just have you in tears. And they may not get picked up, they might get picked up locally, they might get, you know, a nice little run in the media. And that might be the extent, there have been times where I'll be honest with you, okay, I've reached out to Nash, like, Hey, I'd love to up before Can you can you hook me up and get this story out there? And maybe they can, maybe they can't. There have been times where I had a story that was ready to go on a national network interview, we're ready to go. And then a national disaster happens, a tornado or a storm, and they can just push that story out of the way. So there's so many factors of what can happen. Um, and I just think there's no magic, there's no magic, it just, and I've had families that have expressed Well, Why can't our story get that type of lift? And it's heartbreaking? To say, you know, you know, I don't know, but grassroots efforts still mean a lot. The local organizations that helped push stories out, you know, it doesn't have to be in the media to still make an impact their community organizations, their advocacy groups that are still helping to push the narrative, but not everyone is going to rise to the top, it just isn't.

Kim Clark: 00:31:41

And I think it does, working with social media, certain outlets or influencers, does that play a role in your comms plan to try to get the word out, even in non traditional media outlets?

Tiara Tucker: 00:31:57

Absolutely, I think that with us living in a space of where social media, everybody's on their phone, let's be real. Some people may question is a press release made it any more, because if you can put it on social, and they can go viral, and the media's following social, or, or whatever. So I think that the day and times that we're living in now, you know, it can be just someone who was a witness on the scene with the video, and that video goes viral. So there's so many other factors now in play, there can be an influencer, who now shares it on their page, or a radio personality or whomever, where even if it never hits a major network, the story can still get momentum. So there's just so many layers, and there's so many opportunities, and I say that in a positive way to where if someone is, is struggling with, Oh, it didn't get national attention, it didn't get local attention. You know, it's okay. Not everything will. But just do your part. If you feel it's something that does need some attention, you know, do your part, get it out the best way you can. It can be on social media, it can be creating a quick video, it can be a news article, it can be being a guest on a podcast, there's so many ways it can be being a featured guest at a at a rally. So there's so many avenues to get a story out, but then also, it's about understanding what is the desired outcome. There are some situations where people may not even want it to hit mainstream. So it was really knowing the client, knowing the situation and knowing how to best

Kim Clark: 00:33:47

approach it. Yeah, yeah, I bet that that's a key part of what you're working with. And there's the initial situation of the initial like, the murder, you know, so what evidence do we have? What kind of assets do we have to work with to tell the story and backup what we're talking about? And then it could be months or even years later, when a trial may or may happen and getting out getting people back into the interest of what happens, you know, with the trial, and, you know, getting people reengaged into this story, I assume would be a challenge as well. One of the things that I love about what you're talking about is that you're putting this information out, you're working, you know, depending on what the desired outcome is from the led by the family and the kind of information assets if you will, whether it's videos, testimonials, or you know, whatever it may be family members that wish to talk photos, like you mentioned, when something happens, and an organization is either headquartered there has an office there, whether it's gotten local attention or even national attention And what advice do you have for how companies can be a part of the solution? When these social justice issues that can be polarizing, depending on, you know, members of the community and their level of understanding the social context, being educated around what's happening, where it's coming from, what's causing it, root causes, etc? What's your advice as far as like the role that organizations should play? When you're out there saying, here's, here's stuff you can work with. And here's what we're telling you from the point of view of the family and what we understand that happened to this victim to this individual, this human being? What do you want organizations to do with that, and especially to your point where retelling these stories can be quite re traumatizing for some members of the of the workforce. So since you've worked on the inside, and now you're on the outside, what role does organizations have when these these horrific situations occur?

Tiara Tucker: 00:36:12

Yeah, wow. So my response is probably going to be a little unique, you know, might not even be what people expect to hear. But there's, there's so much that is happening in America in a city, right? And it can be overwhelming to try to attack or address everything. So as an example, and I'm going to answer your question, I just want to throw this out there. So although we've been talking about like police brutality involves situations, which is very tragic. I'll give you an example of of just two cases that I helped with this year. One involved, the Allen Texas mass shooting, this has nothing to do with the police, right. But now we have a crisis situation where there's an act of mass shooter, and someone that I was working with a client, he was a survivor. So he was shot could have been left for dead. But this isn't police involved. But it's mass shooting. So that's another topic. So then this past week, I was called in because a young teenager by the name of Keith slaughter. He was at a party. He's a he's a basketball star, local high school student. He was at a party, and he was an innocent bystander that was shot and killed. This isn't police involved. This is it. mass shooting. So I'm given these examples. Look at the variety and complexity of different situations, all perhaps in the same, you know, DFW community. So is it the company's role to address every single thing that's happening not including there might be a fire that just happened here. And you know, and residents are dealing with a fire or something here or something there? So I do understand that it can be overwhelming to say, well, well, which situations do we address? Which ones do we attack? That's challenging. But at the end of the day, they all exist. Um, and my recommendation would be just think about the employees think about the people, right? So as an example, when I was in corporate America, we had employee resource groups, some people may call them affinity, resource groups, whatever you call them. And I personally, I'm in favor of organizations that have these groups, because it allows people to come together, perhaps they have similar interests. And perhaps they are not a part of that particular demographic. But they want to be an advocate, or they want to learn from that group. So it's very open, it's inclusive, but it also, you know, that maybe there's an African American affinity group. And so that group might be the group that wants to highlight certain situations, certain efforts to spread awareness and education to other members of the organization as a whole. So I say that to say, I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer. But at the end of the day, I think it's about passion. It's about honesty, it's about what do you feel? Because it can be challenging if you take every single thing that's happening, but when there's something that's major, when it's something that is keeping your employees up at night, and if it's something that's keeping you up at night, and if employers are reaching out saying, are we going to address this, then I think that's your sign you better address it because it's a little deeper, and I feel that it is the The responsibility of companies, especially if you believe in social responsibility or corporate responsibility or doing your part in the community, they don't just talk about what you're going to do, right? Don't just make that statement. Because your your customers are are watching, you know, your employees are watching. And whether you do something internal or you do something external, just just make sure that you have your ears on the ground. Eyes are watching. And, and you do something when you feel it's needed. And I know that was a roundabout answer, but honestly, I don't feel it's a one size fits all answer. I felt like as an example, George Floyd, and I give that one as an example. Everybody talked about George Floyd, rightfully so. If a company didn't address it, employees, were probably looking at their employer. Like, why wouldn't you address that? But I also looked at it like, I'm glad you're addressing it, but what else are you going to do about it? Like, like, Will? I mean, what else? Right, this happens all the time. We can't just put out one statement, and then that's it. You know, so I just think it's deep. And and it's about bringing the right people to the table who have the thoughts, the opinions, the experiences, the perspectives, bring it all together?

Kim Clark: 00:41:34

Well, thanks for setting up everything that I do with my clients on the depth model. And because you said deep and and being it

Tiara Tucker: 00:41:44

is hard, I wish. I mean, maybe we need to write a book on just that alone. Because it's, it's, it's it's so deep, like, you know, there's so many things that are hurting people, where, you know, somebody might fill up, like, Well, why did we address that, but not address that. But what about this, but not that?

Kim Clark: 00:42:10

Yeah, yeah, I am with you. And that's constantly the kind of conversations that I have with clients where we can't say something about everything. And I'm like, Well, there's a couple of different ways we can reframe that as a way to stop from getting involved. And I couldn't agree with you more with your statement earlier, where you said is not a one size fits all 1,000%. That's why we have the model. That's why I do the DI lens method. It is absolutely I completely agree with you, and looking at what differentiates ourselves within our external comm strategy. How do we position ourselves socially? What do we attach ourselves to, that we can move the needle in a meaningful way to your point, and you're like, and yeah, so it answers the end. And then obviously, making sure that we have our employees max on the inside. So we're going to cover more things, we need to talk more openly about things internally, that we then what we have influence in externally and in differentiating them finding our space and our role in that. So thank you for that.

Tiara Tucker: 00:43:16

And also, I just want to add one more thing to, um, there's also a feeling where there might be some people or some, you know, organizations within an organization where they're always pooled, right? That can be emotional drain is that occurs to when it's let me go to this person when you go to this person and go to that person, but I am an advocate, bringing the voices to the table, it is okay to not no, it is okay to be a CEO, a communicator of the PR person, and you don't know what to say or what to do. It is your obligation to seek wise counsel, bring in the people who you trust, who will help you make an influential and impactful and an informed decision about what perhaps you should or should not do what you should or should not say it is okay. And it's humbling and it probably will even make your your employees appreciate you even more. When you say you know what, I don't understand this. But now I want to understand, let's understand together that can move mountains, so it's okay. It's okay to not know but it's not okay to not know not do anything and just act like nothing is happening and you're ignoring your people to there

Kim Clark: 00:44:53

it is right there. Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. I mean this that's that's the big lesson out of Out of this work lightly, I think is like you don't have to have all of the answers you can't know all the things. That's the beauty. That's why there's a D, and E and an eye. You know, so if you're going to be doing messaging that's going to be inclusive of a variety of people's experiences on a given, you know, situation crisis situation, especially, then there's that then if you have the diversity, then you're gonna have those those perspectives represented in order to create the inclusive communications, and messaging and container around a social situation. So excellent, excellent advice. So you're an external PR agency, and and a lot of our corporate comms colleagues, and teams, hire PR agencies to give them recommendations for crisis communication situations. Now I saw there was articles about it that backed it up, but I saw clients who were coming to me saying, core, our core comms PR agencies have recommended like all too I'll do the example of when Roe v. Wade was overturned. Our court comms PR agency of record has said it was recommended that we say nothing. So leaders are going to say nothing. And and here's the my contact is the internal or the employee communicator who's coming to me saying, that doesn't feel right. That doesn't feel right. And so this one size fits all this blanketed. And we have to, we have to give better advice than that. And we have to be proactive on our social positioning when it comes to social justice topics and issues as well as just general diversity, equity, inclusion communication practices, we have to be better strategically positioned. We have to have a strategy and a framework in place. That's where the depth model comes in. And we really, we can't allow anybody that we have that's going to provide recommendations to us or trainers immediate training or in, you know, crisis communications, playbooks, etc. To not have a dei lens on that work. Like that is to me is completely unacceptable, unacceptable. Here we are three years out post George Floyd. I mean, I wanted it before that, right. But we really don't have an excuse post George Floyd. So what is your recommendation of what corporate communication teams to be need to be looking for and expecting and requiring of communication vendors, whether it's marketing agencies, strategic strategy and brands, content, social media, like, as well as PR agencies that they are bringing in and asking for their recommendations? What what do they need to mandate and require of their agencies in order to put them in a stronger position? If they don't hire you and me, which is the right thing for them to do? That is a fast track to getting to much better strategy. But if they already are locked in with other agencies, what do they need demand of their agencies in? So they are not in a in a place of disservice by those agencies?

Tiara Tucker: 00:48:21

Yes, wow. I would say first of all, know that this is your company, your brand. At the end of the day, you know, your culture, you know, your people, you know, your history and you know, your desired future, more than anybody that you bring in from the outside. But also, I think that it's important to know that when you are picking a company or deciding on a company, or maybe you already have one, I would ask you, meaning the person or the people look at that company, is that company diverse? Is that company, somewhat representative of your company? You know, how diverse are they and thought and experiences and culture and different things, and this can be a very small company, which is fine, but even then, it is very critical to understand, you know, what is this agency bringing to the table? Because if you're selecting a very one sided or very narrow minded, conservative or liberal or whatever agency you are deciding to work with, then you chose that you made that decision. So when it comes to something that may feel a little, you know, maybe it's a crisis situation. You have to look at a well, well, how how diverse are their experiences, to even help me come up with a strategy or a response But then I also look at this company as your partner. When I work with clients, I am your partner. Okay? Agree, right? Because that's how close I want to be with you, where I understand your goals, your objectives, I want you to feel comfortable calling me at 2am. Because you just learn new information, and we're going to think about it together. So I say that to say it's a partnership. Now, granted, maybe you only call this company when something comes up. But how do you feel about their reaction to that, and if you don't feel good about it, and if you're still if you're questioning their decisions, and that may not be the right company for you, because at the end of the day, your employees may not even know that you have this external agency or this external consultant, they're looking at you, and what you're providing what you're sharing. So make sure you're in alignment with that agency, and you value their opinion. And you're also making sure they understand your culture, your perspective, and being able to provide some of your own thoughts as to what you would like the outcome to be as well. So I think it's a partnership, but it's about selecting the right companies. Yeah,

Kim Clark: 00:51:19

absolutely. who are walking the talk. And that can teach you something around making sure that they're not making recommendations on performative statements, you know, and they know the difference, that they themselves are not representing a more of a performative team or a performative approach. That they are that they are quite genuine. And I have expertise in dei communications, in particular, social justice, communications, that's really key. Because

Tiara Tucker: 00:51:50

if they don't,

Kim Clark: 00:51:52

yeah, go ahead. Yes, I'm

Tiara Tucker: 00:51:54

sorry, go ahead. I was just gonna say, and if they don't, then within their network, they have someone that they can pull in. Yeah. And

Kim Clark: 00:52:03

yeah, and that's what I do is that there's a whole team behind me that I custom put together depending on who the client is, what the scope of the project is, I pull things together in hopes tiara that you and I end up working together, you handle the external I handle the internal and then together we do the social positioning, like there's, there's, there's a way that we we work together, we don't have to be a large company to be effective. And that goes to say with some of the very visible high visible, large, global national kind of brands that we've worked with, you know, we we've worked with some pretty, pretty big names that I've been the ghost in the machine for, but I always custom curate the projects with clients, depending on what their needs are, and the makeup of the expertise that I need in the team, which includes personal experiences, as well as professional experiences. So this has been extremely helpful so I'm going to ask you this one question. I love to get everyone who comes on communicate like you give a damn their perspective on what does it sound like? Or feel like you choose? However you want to answer it? What does it sound like to communicate like you give a damn

Tiara Tucker: 00:53:31

like, you give a damn. Yes. Um, you just, you communicate, you speak from the heart. Speak it. You, you share what you feel respectfully. But I just feel like at the end of the day, the there's so much going on in the world. There's so many experiences, there's so many things happening. But we're human, anything happening to someone could also happen to you or your family. So when you're communicating, you communicate from the perspective of what if this was me? Okay, this isn't me, but how should I? How should I react? How should I respond? And I think that, that when we start communicating like, like with more empathy, and when we start communicating, like our goal, our purpose is to make a positive difference in the world, then, you know, you might you might share something that others may not agree with. But if it's if you're passionate about it, and it's positive, then don't give a damn about what you're saying, and how others may react. Because if that's how you feel, and it's positive, not polarizing, but even then, there might be times where if you're passionate about it, just know your voice matters. Your perception act of matters. Sometimes people need to hear something that they don't want to hear that they didn't even think they would ever hear in life. But if that thing that they heard, or that thing that they experienced, can change their mindset for the better, they maybe don't give a damn about saying it or sharing it. But again, do it with respect. Do it with love.

Kim Clark: 00:55:22

Yes, yes, yes. Yes. I want to add one more question. Before we wrap up here and learn how people can stay in touch with you. How do you how do you take care of yourself, given the kinds of stories and intimate knowledge that you get, especially through these social justice cases? And they're not cases they're people? You know, there's families grieving and, and there's, there's a lot to it, how do you take care of yourself? How should people take care of themselves based off of what you've learned about how to care for yourself? Because, as you said, it's compounding and it seems like and how do you keep up hope?

Tiara Tucker: 00:56:11

Yes, um, it can be hard. I mean, there was a time a few years ago, when I was really heavily involved with more of the, you know, social justice or police brutality cases, I'm not as heavily involved. Now, it just kind of depends, there's different types of situations that might come to my table nowadays. But at the time, I'll be honest, it was very overwhelming, it's very emotional. Because there are so many entities involved. And for me, there was a time when I was I was burned, like, I had nothing I was, I felt depleted, because it can be emotional, it can be a lot of heaviness. But one thing that I that I learned is that with anything in life, sometimes you do have to pause, sometimes you do have to take a step back, you know, I like the balance of, you know, I may have a heavy situation over here that I'm working on. But then I might get a message from someone saying, Thank you for, for spreading the word about this. Thank you for letting God use you to get this word out. Those are my confirmations essay is deeper than what I'm doing. Because we're, we're part of a movement that's getting awareness out, there's bringing hope. But then at the same time, I have a lot of pleasure in working with people, like I said, somebody that just dropped the new book, someone who who just dropped a new podcast, someone who just opened a new business, because those are those positive stories, that means so much as well. So it's that balance, like I don't want to be known for just one thing, I want to be known as the as Tierra, Tierra Tucker, the one who, who wants to help make an impact in this world, whether it's regarding something that's a crisis, or something that that's beautiful, that gives people hope, wants people to dream even more. And when it comes to the sad stories, I think that one thing that helps me is knowing that we will never understand why a crisis situation happened, we will never ever understand. But if the but if the goal of this family is to say I want the world to know who my child was, that's the legacy I want to leave behind, then if telling that story is not going to inspire and impact someone else, then then the job is done. You know, it's helping other people more than we even realize. So it's really finding that balance and taking a step back when needed. But just knowing that you are making a difference, one story at a time, one situation at a time.

Kim Clark: 00:59:03

And with your help people are going to learn more about about and have more awareness around this and hopefully be able to take it back into their organizations, whether it's through their community outreach and support for employees are actually moving the needle to force more prevention of you know, real justice is not you know, necessarily what leads to a trial conviction, etc. It could be the prevention of the death of the person in the first place. And so putting our attention, money and influence and power into those areas for so we can prevent this these loss, loss of lives and these grieving families from even getting to this point, protect each other, keep each other safe and keep ourselves safe in the midst of the work. Tiara. How can people get involved you vote about Yes, absolutely.

Tiara Tucker: 00:59:59

Just because, you know, I just I know we're wrapping up. But I have to say, I, I didn't realize it until someone brought it to my attention. They're like, you know, I've been on the side of the police brutality where I saw that side and what a family deals with. I've been on the side where someone actually was involved. On the other side I've been on the side of, of working with with politicians. I've been on the side of working with the attorneys, I've had the honor of seeing all the sides, and guess what they all work together, the community organizations to community leaders, it's an ecosystem. It's an ecosystem, everybody has to work together. It takes a lot, but any role that you can play, you can play it, it takes donors, it takes volunteers, it takes advocacy, it takes legislation, it takes so much to make an impact. But how to follow me again, my name is tear M Tucker founder and CEO of tear a PR network, you can visit my website, www dot tear a PR network.com. You can follow me on LinkedIn, TRM, Tucker, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, tear and Tucker. And also I want to also offer a resource. I'm the PR and media director for an organization called love, justice, love justice, we are all about focusing on social justice and being a community resource hub virtual space where you can go to learn about over 40 social justice issues and causes that you may care about. We provide blogs, news articles, community events, so go to love justice.com as well. We also have a podcast, the host of the podcast, and we're bringing in conversations where we're bringing in people who are involved in the social justice space, the DNI space, and we're going to have these conversations so that we can bring the people to the table and their voice. So I would love to connect with anybody out there that's just looking for somebody else to just be a partner or, or just pass on like just to chat with.

Kim Clark: 01:02:10

Thank you for fighting the good fight in all of the cases that you've been a part of. And within Texas, as well. And, and yeah, one of the things I said in that session at prsa icon in Nashville this year was we don't have to do all the things but we have to do our thing. And when all of us do our thing, everything's covered. So thank you, Tara, for your work, for your commitment, for your guidance, and for your presence in the situations that you showed up when and pulling people together. Thank you for the work and utilizing communications as a way to bring people together. Thank you very much for your time.

Tiara Tucker: 01:03:00

Thank you, and thank you, Chairman, thank you for all that you're doing and thank you for a platform like this to allow people like me to share my journey.